What lessons have you learned during these past few pandemic years? 

I have learned/am always still learning to be precious with my needs. Especially at the beginning of the pandemic I went into “MY CLIENTS NEED ME” mode as though I was not also processing the weirdest and most terrible thing to happen to the world in my lifetime. I have big caretaker energy so I can lean so far into that mode that I forget that I also have needs. The pandemic taught me that if I stay on that path I WILL burn out and not be able to help anyone. So now, I try to be precious with my needs—creating space every day to notice them, making plans to take care of them.

I also learned to better prioritize what matters in my life. Early pandemic we had no choice but to make big decisions on what mattered to us and I have thankfully been able to stick with what I learned in that time and prioritize accordingly. 

I sort of have my own answer for this but can you tell me in your own words, who is “right” for therapy? (My answer is everyone lol)	 

I 100% agree with you here. Everyone can benefit from therapy. There are, however, seasons for everything and someone has to be in a season of wanting to grow/change/deepen to actually benefit from therapy.

What is the best advice you've ever received?

“This too shall pass.” My mom said this to me when I was in a particularly difficult time of teenage angst and it was comforting to be reminded that everything has an ending. As a grief specialist that thinks about death and how to live a life…maybe too much?...it has taken on a new meaning over time where “this too shall pass” not only helps me in times of pain when it’s hard to see the other side, but also in beautiful times that I want to hold on to every moment. Good times come and go, hard times come and go and the best thing we can do in any moment is try to be present. 

What does success look like for you, mean to you?

Success in business looks like having a team of therapists that are so well taken care of that they have even more capacity to care for their clients. Success as a therapist means having clients that have grown so much that, even if they want to keep working with me they do not need me to be able to make it through hard times because of the work that they’ve done with me. And success overall looks like having healthy relationships with my partner, my family, my friends, but also a healthy relationship with money and rest and my physical body.

Where do you see yourself at 85?

A lot of therapists work into their 90s so maybe I’ll still have a handful of clients at 85…but mostly I imagine having weird hobbies that I share with my husband and spending as much time as possible with my loved ones. 

What kind of advice would you give to someone 

• struggling in their work?

  What parts of your job do you like? If you can’t name anything then it may be time for a change.

• having a hard time giving themselves grace?

  Would you say the things you say to yourself to someone that you love? (if yes…that’s worth exploring) But if not, then you don’t deserve to hear them either. Try imaging a younger version of yourself and speaking to them—it can help build grace to your current self if you can remember that you have young parts of you that maybe didn’t receive care they needed and need to be spoken to with a loving tone. 

• having a rough patch in their marriage?

  How can you build empathy towards your partner? The more you can feel empathy and understanding towards them the easier it is to keep from being defensive so that you can find resolve in your communication. Also, the Gottmans (relationship researchers and therapists) found that for every 1 negative interaction you have with your partner you need 5 positive interactions to balance it out. This can feel daunting but important to know to try to prioritize building more positive interactions. 

• feeling inadequate as a parent?

  There is no such thing as a perfect parent but instead research shows that if you’re a “good enough” parent even just 70% of the time, your child will more than likely still thrive. How can you lean into your strengths and hit that 70% and give yourself some slack for the 30% of the time that you (just like every other parent) drop the ball?

• wanting to "get there" or "be there" already in their life?

  “If you are depressed you are living in the past. If you are anxious you are living in the future. If you are at peace you are living in the present.” -Lao Tzu  How can you you be so present in your life now that you’re able to build the future that you’re longing for?

• grieving someone?

  Grief is the embodiment of love—it’s not something that you get over but instead that person is integrated into your being. How can you integrate grief to be a part of your life and not all of your life. Knowing that your love does not lessen even if your experience of grief does.

• having a difficult time with depression?

  What is one loving thing that you can do for yourself right now? Even if that is just sitting outside for exactly 60 seconds. It is hard to break the cycle of depression and it usually requires small steps out of the routine that depression is trying to keep you to. 

• struggling with anxiety/stress?

  Pause and breathe as often as possible, set a reminder if you have to. Try journaling to get a better sense of what may be causing the anxiety and see what you have the agency to change. 

• feeling overwhelmed by life?

  Ground in the present moment. Find something in your home that could bring you daily joy, something outside your home for weekly joy, something else you can look forward to even if months away.

• who is stuck in a comparison trap?

  How can you bask in the glory that is YOU?! Remembering that you are the only, unique and incredible you. 

• feeling lonely?

  Create a “connection list” on your phone of people that love you that you could reach out to at any given moment. Make plans with someone on this list. You can also create a “I like…” list to help you remember activities or hobbies that you like that can feel meaningful to you and maybe even help you feel connected to yourself. We are wired to need connection but it is also possible to find contentedness in your own company. 

• dealing with social anxiety?

  Have a go-to breathing exercise, remember that no one is perfect and try to speak lovingly to yourself (talk back to the negative self-talk that can come up in social situations). 

• to a younger version of yourself?

  You are becoming and that is a messy and beautiful process that you will spend your life on. Be gentle with yourself and follow your instincts. You will always come back to yourself and love lives where you are. 

What lessons have you learned during these past few pandemic years? Especially with the (hopeful) rise of people calling on therapists? 

Oh, so many. I think one is that when really hard things happen, I have learned to lean into a few things: it's okay to struggle, a kind inner voice goes a long way, and everything is always changing. I think it can be easy to generalize what it looks like to be resilient and feel discouraged when the waves just don’t stop coming and you’re not swimming so well. But the thing is, even within long arduous seasons, the tectonic plates of our lives and selves are always moving. One of my favorite pieces of parenting wisdom which feels applicable here is to give any problem you’re having two weeks. It may not go away but it won’t be the same. I think this rule applies to a lot of life and especially times that feel relentless. I know for myself, I am learning to watch for shifts and to be patient in the ebb and flow of my emotional states and circumstances. 

I sort of have my own answer for this but can you tell me in your own words, who is “right” for therapy? (My answer is everyone lol)	 

Haha, yes! I think it is right for everyone (or at least most people) but not everyone is in a season where it would benefit them. Change is a process and we need different things to move us through different phases of change. So therapy would benefit everyone because it applies to everyone but not necessarily at any time in a person's life. 

What is the best advice you've ever received?

Give it two weeks, baby! 

What does success look like for you, mean to you?

I think success for me could look like a lot of different things. As a therapist, I think it looks like maintaining openness and a learning posture. I never want to be someone who becomes too set in a way of looking at things or reduces people to boxes. As an individual, there are some parts of my life that feel very open-ended right now and I guess my primary goal is to become a warm home and a good friend to myself while I ride out the unknown. Modeling this for my daughter is also important to me. So success I guess has a lot to do with who I am to myself and the people I am responsible to. 

Where do you see yourself at 85?

I read an interview once with Marylin Robinson where she said something like “you have to live with your mind your whole life so you might as well make it into something you want to live with.” I think about this all the time and hope it’s true at 85. Right now though, it’s a work in progress. 

What kind of advice would you give to someone 

• struggling in their work?

  Work is such a huge part of our lives and it's as important to be attentive and responsive to ourselves there as much as anywhere else. So, what might you be needing and not getting? Are there any boundaries that are missing? How can you take care of yourself? 

• having a hard time giving themselves grace?

  As basic as it sounds, imagine you are talking to a friend (visualize them on the couch next to you if you can) and see what you would say to them if they were in your shoes. Then try saying quiet or out loud to yourself. Make sure to reflect on how it felt to try that. What happened to your body (inside and outside)? 

• having a rough patch in their marriage?

  First, zoom out—what’s been going on for the both of you, where do you each come from, what is the bigger context? In partnerships it can be easy to get stuck in conflicts that sit on the surface of much bigger pain points. Second, seek out positive investments in the relationship and answer bids for connection from each other. Third, therapy (seriously, just do it). Sitting in front of a third party who can hold both of your perspectives and help translate for the relationship can be SO relieving. Also, the earlier you start in a rough period the better. And even when things aren’t that bad, building a relationship with a couples therapist you can return to when you need to can also be a really helpful thing. 

• feeling inadequate as a parent?

  Ah, I see you. One big thing here is nurturing that kind inner voice. Before you get lost in who you are to your kids, think about how you’re treating yourself. We are the ones who show up for our kids and what is happening inside us has a huge impact on what parts of us come out. Being gentle with yourself and being able to regulate your own emotions is not only important modeling but it also gives you more capacity. Also, seek support and community. Parenting in our culture can be a very lonely thing with a disproportionate amount of pressure on one or two people to get it all right. If you’re feeling that way, it’s worth prioritizing community and getting the help you need. (Come to Mom World!) 

• wanting to "get there" or "be there" already in their life?

  I think about the image of labyrinths a lot as a metaphor for the seemingly innumerable thresholds and transitional phases of life. If you’re interested, pull up an image of one and trace it with your finger. Imagine the center point is where you want to be and reflect on where you’ve been as you move over it. What do you notice—sensations in your body, emotions, thoughts, memories? Try to go slow and stay with yourself in the process. One important thing to notice is that no journey is linear and even though sometimes it feels like you’re moving backwards, you may actually be moving closer to the center. The point though is that you’re moving. Now, how can you be with yourself where you’re at? 

• having a difficult time with depression?

  Depression is complicated and can be so hard to shake. Communal support and breaking things down to small achievable steps can help you move through your days. Seeking help is also something that while initiating has the potential to help you make sense of what’s happening.

• struggling with anxiety?

  Anxiety is a b****. I think self-understanding and compassion go a long way here. Anxiety is sometimes a way of coping with something that feels out of control. So figuring out what core emotion you’re feeling toward whatever it is and why can be decompressing. Also, learn a breathing tool or two, they really do help. 

• feeling stressed out?

  Stress and overwhelm have physiological manifestations in our body and it’s really hard to get out of the loop without completing something called the stress response cycle. I love Emily & Amelia Nagowski’s book “Burnout” as a resource on this subject. (Also some great stuff in there about something called “human giver syndrome.”) But the short of it is this—stress should have a beginning, middle, and end so to help your body and brain move through it, make sure you are doing something to complete the cycle. This includes physical activity (anything that gets your heart pumping—including clenching all your muscles for 90 seconds or so), a creative act, laughing really hard (like from your belly), a good cathartic cry, physical affection (try a 20 second hug—they are magic), and lastly deep breathing (lots of ways to do this but a simple one is just to take a deep breath in and then breath out all the way until your belly is totally empty and feels like its crushing your organs—repeat for several minutes). 

• who is stuck in a comparison trap?

  Comparison traps seem to do something in us reminiscent of shame. They are almost always only somewhat founded in reality so they fall apart pretty quickly with a few questions. Asking yourself what you're implying is true about you with this comparison can be a powerful challenge. Then thinking about what the function is of the comparison—what are you afraid might be true, or what is it protecting you from in your relationship with this person and/or with yourself—all good questions. 

• feeling lonely?

  Loneliness is so layered. There is something to be said for examining our loneliness and learning to tolerate being with ourselves but the beautiful thing about connection and relationship is that other people can sometimes help turn us back toward ourselves. One idea to help build in the sense of connectedness is to establish a weekly ritual or two involving the same people. Maybe it’s going to the same coffee shop every Monday morning and learning the names of the people who work there so you can experience being seen and expected somewhere in the world before you start your week. Or, better yet, something like a weekly walk or meal with a few friends. If you wanna go big, maybe start a book group where everyone reads a chapter a week. Anything you can look forward to but don’t have to plan every time can help build a sense of being communally connected while you navigate whatever it is that’s contributing to loneliness. Oh, and last thing, try telling someone. We all experience loneliness and it can feel really good to see and be seen in that place. 

• dealing with social anxiety?

  Deep breaths. Get in touch with yourself and what is true about you and practice nurturing that kind inner voice in the presence of other people. 

• to a younger version of yourself?

  It’s okay to be where you are.